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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:23 am 
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Xtrail Nut
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:04 pm
Posts: 1026
Location: Oxfordshire
Car:: X-Trail
Model: Sport Expedition Extreme - Diesel 173 - Manual
Year/Plate: 2009 / 59
Colour: Thundercloud
Mods: Nerside rearview mirror replaced for with one with blind-spot mirror (genuine Nissan part for an LHD X-Trail), DRLs (proper ones that dim at night), LED sidelights, Front+Rear DashCam
kennygwood wrote:
Hi SBradman, Off topic, but, as a comment on the aside....£210 is VERY cheap insurance....Post code / occupation/ on street parking/ claims, soon wind it up. I'm 55ys and was quoted £1200 fully comp after a (relatively) minor claim. Best I had before that was around £500....you are very lucky!


Ooh - that's a hefty hike for a prang.

Like you, I am in sound (location classical music recording and the UK distributor for Gefell microphones, AETA location recorders and mixers and Geithain monitors).

My X-trail is insured fully comp. including full business use, including the wife and Euro cover - costs about £550 p.a. - though I was the victim of a "crash for cash" in Feb. I am with Aviva with protected no claims, so I hope I don't get a hike like yours on renewal in September.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:54 pm
Posts: 11
Car:: Xtrail
Model: Tekna 173
Year/Plate: 2011
Colour: Grey
I'm also looking at the Spider, are the performance gains really as impressive as what the website states, 173PS > 231PS and Torque up from 360NM > 463NM?

I have a 2011 Tekna 2.0 173.


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:49 pm
Posts: 17
Car:: Xtrail
Model: 2.2D SVE
Year/Plate: 2007/07
Colour: Black
Is there any particular reason why people go for the Spider at around £450 rather than something like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-X-Trail-2-2-dCi-Performance-Tuning-Chip-Box-/251037634540

I'm looking at something not necessarily for performance, but to help with economy and £350 is a big difference in price...


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: Deepest Darkest Devon
Car:: Xtrail T30
Model: SVE - Blue Thunder
Year/Plate: 03
Colour: Aruba Blue (BW6)
Mods: Reverse sensors/alarm, front & rear wind deflectors, chrome rear boot sill guard, chrome mirror covers, chrome door handle covers, chrome rear light covers, full set rear nissan window screens, bonnet deflector/bug guard, headlamp protectors!
£450 performance upgrade, if it gives you an extra 5 mpg, how many miles would you need to do for it to pay for itself? I cant see its viable... obviously if you want it to increase power, then perhaps...

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:04 pm
Posts: 1026
Location: Oxfordshire
Car:: X-Trail
Model: Sport Expedition Extreme - Diesel 173 - Manual
Year/Plate: 2009 / 59
Colour: Thundercloud
Mods: Nerside rearview mirror replaced for with one with blind-spot mirror (genuine Nissan part for an LHD X-Trail), DRLs (proper ones that dim at night), LED sidelights, Front+Rear DashCam
marksparks999 wrote:
£450 performance upgrade, if it gives you an extra 5 mpg, how many miles would you need to do for it to pay for itself? I cant see its viable... obviously if you want it to increase power, then perhaps...


And how much extra on the insurance each year?

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:38 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: Deepest Darkest Devon
Car:: Xtrail T30
Model: SVE - Blue Thunder
Year/Plate: 03
Colour: Aruba Blue (BW6)
Mods: Reverse sensors/alarm, front & rear wind deflectors, chrome rear boot sill guard, chrome mirror covers, chrome door handle covers, chrome rear light covers, full set rear nissan window screens, bonnet deflector/bug guard, headlamp protectors!
Quote:
And how much extra on the insurance each year?


another cost factor, to think about... i cant see they are financially viable, motor manufacturers spend multi millions developing their engines to work at optimum performance for emmissions, reliabilty etc, and the market they are sold in, messing around with them seems potentially uneconomical, and with new vehicles no doubt it would have some warranty implications, unless completed by the manufacturer?

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:49 pm
Posts: 17
Car:: Xtrail
Model: 2.2D SVE
Year/Plate: 2007/07
Colour: Black
Obviously whether or not it is cost effective for the £450 models depends on lots of things, mainly how efficiently you are driving at the moment

Assuming fuel at £1.40/l if you currently get 30mpg and can go up to 35mpg then 15000 miles covers your cost. Moving from 35mpg to 40mpg takes it to 20000 and going from 40mpg to 45mpg would take it to 25000.

This was partly the reason for the question about why people opt for the £450 models over some of the cheaper ones.
If you get one for £100 and move from 35mpg to 40mpg the number of miles you need to be doing comes down to just over 4000.

For the amount I drive I couldn't justify £450 but £100 and it would pay for itself even with an insurance increase. Just wondering of anyone goes for the cheaper ones or if not, why they go the the expensive one?


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 2837
Location: Cumbria
Car:: Xtrail
Model: T30
Year/Plate: 56
Colour: Silver
I have a very deep mistrust of these things. Ever noticed how they never seem to quote the standard that they tested to when making these claims? When a car manufacturer goes through the type approval process, they need to do (among other things) an engine power test, a fuel consumption test and an emissions / CO2 emissions test. These result in the "official figures" that we see published.

Emissions are usually done to Directive 70/220/EC (or one of its many amending Directives), and more recent vehicles will have been done to Commission Regulation 715/2007/EC.

CO2 emissions and fuel consumption will have been done to 80/1268/EC (again, as amended)

and engine power will have been done to 80/1269/EC.

If any of these aftermarket chip / box manufacturers would care to quote INDEPENDENT tests, to the same versions of each of those standards as the base vehicle was tested, by a proper test lab accredited to carry out type approval work, I'll put my hand in my pocket. Until then, buyer beware!!!

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that some of them will get the engine to produce more power (that's relatively easy to do on a turbo engine - just give it more fuel and more boost), but I'm rather more sceptical about claims of improved fuel consumption. I work (on the fringe of) the car industry and I can see the (literally) hundreds of thousands - if not millions of pounds they are prepared to spend to get a (say) 5% improvement in fuel consumption, or getting the CO2 emissions down into the next band for road tax. Hell, they're even at the point where they have a smart electronic monitoring system just so that they can reduce alternator drag when the battery is well charged and electrical demand is low! Does anyone really think they'd be going to those lengths if they could just go on eBay and buy a cheap box to plug into the engine loom?! (AND get more power while they're at it)! :roll:

Lastly, forget all this "carp" about them having to map the engine management system so the car can run on yak's pi55 at the top of the Andes. The above tests are done using standard EC "reference fuel" (either petrol or diesel) similar to ordinary forecourt pump diesel (not the go-faster stuff like Optimax) and the power tests are done on a dyno and compensated back down to "sea level" pressure conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 25
Taking note of manufacturers figures doesn't always match up to reality! My first T31 173 (2008) manual diesel consumption on regular journeys typically managed 38/39 mpg matching the quoted 'combined quote' from Nissan. My later T31 173 (2011) typically managed 40/41 mpg on the same driving conditions and routes. However Nissan quotes 44.1 mpg for the combined so there would seem to be some optimism on their part rather than realism now. That said I am happy with the consumption I get but would have liked their figure!

John P


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Performance Chip - Any one got one?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:33 pm
Posts: 3097
Location: Ireland
I can't really see how you can get BOTH an improvement in BHP and FUEL ECONOMY at the same time.

Yes, you can remap your ECU and even change parameters - but the basic principles of energy, work and thermodynamics can't be changed. An equation is an equation.

Take the BMW 320d. There are 2 versions of that engine - the efficent dynamics, gives ~60mpg @ 163 BHP and the 'normal' model gives ~52mpg @ 180bhp. It's economy or power.

The only way to optmise an engines performance, is the ability to change parameters on the fly. The modern diesel engine, uses a mechanical cam to let in air, another to let out burnt gases and an injector to allow fuel in.

There has been a lot of interest in the developing fully electronic systems, that use electronic actuators to allow optimal air in and exhaust gases out. An engine like this offers a lot more flexibility throughout the entire operating range, meaning under varying temp, load, torque, revs etc, the exact amount of air can be introduced - unlike it's mechanical counterpart.

While a set up like this may give better performance out of the same block and more flexibility in optimising power or economy under a certain set of conditions, beyond a thershold, you won't see an improvement in power AND economy at the same time.

My 2 cents.

Eoin


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