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Timing chain replacement

28K views 24 replies 8 participants last post by  Mort  
#1 ·
Hi all,

I need to change the timing chains and am trying to determine if the engine needs to come out.

I'm told that all engines other than the 2.2dCi engine can be done in situ, but on that one the engine must come out. Has anyone got information that agrees with or differs from, this info?
 
#3 ·
Ahto42 said:
Engine can stay in, Just need to remove the engine mount and with a floor jack and woodblock under the oil pan you can lower and raise the engine.
yes lowering and raising to reach bolts but be carfull of the sump is it rusty? ÂŁ45 new and the consensis here is that the bottom chain should be ok and the hardest to do.
 
#4 ·
pete-H said:
Ahto42 said:
Engine can stay in, Just need to remove the engine mount and with a floor jack and woodblock under the oil pan you can lower and raise the engine.
yes lowering and raising to reach bolts but be carfull of the sump is it rusty? ÂŁ45 new and the consensis here is that the bottom chain should be ok and the hardest to do.
I'm thinking that with the sump off and a block across supported by the upright may overcome some of the issues and would give an option of changing the bottom one if needed.

What do you think?
 
#5 ·
pete-H said:
Ahto42 said:
Engine can stay in, Just need to remove the engine mount and with a floor jack and woodblock under the oil pan you can lower and raise the engine.
yes lowering and raising to reach bolts but be carfull of the sump is it rusty? ÂŁ45 new and the consensis here is that the bottom chain should be ok and the hardest to do.
I'm thinking that with the sump off and a block across supported by the upright may overcome some of the issues and would give an option of changing the bottom one if needed.

What do you think?
 
#6 ·
thats the way ide do it Sam for the top chain that is, when removal of the bottom chain starts things change if you look under the car youl see the tin part of the sump as the low point and oil pickup point but infact the casting that its attached to is allso the sump from the bell housing to the oil pump aka lower chain cover i found i had no option but to remove the casting and to do that the center beam has to come out to get the bolts. im in the middle of removeing my gearbox nightmare :roll: but in this video you see hes supporting the engine from the top maybe for the bottom chain this could be the way to go.
 
#8 ·
pete-H said:
thats the way ide do it Sam for the top chain that is, when removal of the bottom chain starts things change if you look under the car youl see the tin part of the sump as the low point and oil pickup point but infact the casting that its attached to is allso the sump from the bell housing to the oil pump aka lower chain cover i found i had no option but to remove the casting and to do that the center beam has to come out to get the bolts. im in the middle of removeing my gearbox nightmare :roll: but in this video you see hes supporting the engine from the top maybe for the bottom chain this could be the way to go.
Thanks, I like the idea of supporting the engine from the top. If the bottom chain needs to be done it's not a big re-jig as nothing is in the way.
 
#9 ·
pete-H said:
thats the way ide do it Sam for the top chain that is, when removal of the bottom chain starts things change if you look under the car youl see the tin part of the sump as the low point and oil pickup point but infact the casting that its attached to is allso the sump from the bell housing to the oil pump aka lower chain cover i found i had no option but to remove the casting and to do that the center beam has to come out to get the bolts. im in the middle of removeing my gearbox nightmare :roll: but in this video you see hes supporting the engine from the top maybe for the bottom chain this could be the way to go.
Thanks, I like the idea of supporting the engine from the top. If the bottom chain needs to be done it's not a big re-jig as nothing is in the way.
 
#10 ·
Norfolkboy50 said:
Im hoping to replace the tensioners on my brother inlaws next week 07 Columbia leave chains.. any idea on how long a job it is and what tools i will need .. cheers
hi Norfolkboy50 ive only worked on my t30 DI but not much realy if your doing the top, engine mount has to come off as you cant get the cover out with it inplace and things are made so much easyer made first job allso a set of hex bits to unfasten the tensioners etc.
 
#11 ·
The bottom ("primary") chain is a whole world of extra pain to do. As has been said, the sump needs to come off, but to get it off you need to take the exhaust off the bottom of the cat, and the centre bar from the subframe. Even then you need to take the extra casting off, which goes between the pressed steel sump pan and the bottom of the block. That, in turn, needs the aircon pump mounting bracket to come off. It's very difficult in situ. The whole engine is like that - stupid things which, if a fastener had been moved 10mm or so, wouldn't need to have been taken off...

When I did mine, I could find absolutely nothing at all wrong with the bottom chain. It was just a huge amount of extra work for nothing. I spoke several times to Des Marples at West Yorkshire Engine Services, who was extremely helpful when I was doing it. He confirmed that he's never seen the Primary chain fail. If you DO want to change it, there's a massive Torx bolt through one of the sprockets (I think on the diesel high pressure pump) I've a vague feeling it's a T70, so you'll need one of those (and a big bar....)

The other thing I learned the hard way, was not to change the cam sprockets. Mine weren't worn, but as I got a new pair in the kit, I thought I'd swap them. Big mistake! The bolts through the middle of each one are supposed to be torqued to something daft like 120 lbft, but the only thing you can hold the cam with, is a cast hexagon on the camshaft under one of the injectors (they could have put it anywhere on the length of the cam, but no, they had to put it in a place where you have to take an injector out....). Being "as cast" (or forged) it's a rubbish fit in any known open-ended spanner and you just end up rounding the flats off it trying to hold it with an open-ended spanner against the (bigger) bolt through the sprocket (which of course, you can get a socket on).

If you search for a thread called "timing chain misery", there are a number of photos on there, which might help. The only thing I WOULD say, is that about 15,000 miles after I did this, the car developed cold starting problems which could only be solved by moving the cam timing sensor slightly. This suggests that there was some sort of mismatch between the cam and the crank sensors, indicating that something was going out of tolerance with the valve timing, so maybe it DOES pay to either change everything (or possibly I'd done something else wrong, or bought some dodgy pattern parts....).
 
#12 ·
pete-H said:
Ahto42 said:
Engine can stay in, Just need to remove the engine mount and with a floor jack and woodblock under the oil pan you can lower and raise the engine.
yes lowering and raising to reach bolts but be carfull of the sump is it rusty? ÂŁ45 new and the consensis here is that the bottom chain should be ok and the hardest to do.
Is it possible to change the tensioner on the bottom chain without removing the sump?
 
#13 ·
yes and no, it involves a dremel mini grinder with good quality bits a long reach spanner with the end cut off and not assotiated with a dremel the removal of the oil pump spacer ill leave the rest to your imagination. :starwars:
 
#15 ·
Norfolkboy50 said:
Think i just replace the tensioners as i think one may have broken somtimes it quite and another rattles away likw hell. Whst we talking a days work
If you're going to that much trouble, I would definitely change the secondary chain. You will have made access for it and the chain and tensioner together will last much longer. You may also find a problem with the chain when you have the cover etc. off which would mean the car off the road for a few days.
 
#18 ·
Sorry to jump in, my 06 2.2 Dci has developed a sporadic rattle from the timing chain side, sounds almost like a bolt or piece of metal is rattling around as the noise is not consistent as you would expect with the rotation of the engine and it comes and goes presumably when it lodges somewhere it goes quiet..

any ideas? anyone found anything when removing the timing chain?
 
#19 ·
Moonstick said:
Sorry to jump in, my 06 2.2 Dci has developed a sporadic rattle from the timing chain side, sounds almost like a bolt or piece of metal is rattling around as the noise is not consistent as you would expect with the rotation of the engine and it comes and goes presumably when it lodges somewhere it goes quiet..

any ideas? anyone found anything when removing the timing chain?
Stretched chain / tensioner at limit.
 
#20 ·
Moonstick said:
Sorry to jump in, my 06 2.2 Dci has developed a sporadic rattle from the timing chain side, sounds almost like a bolt or piece of metal is rattling around as the noise is not consistent as you would expect with the rotation of the engine and it comes and goes presumably when it lodges somewhere it goes quiet..

any ideas? anyone found anything when removing the timing chain?
Yes, it could quite easily be the plastic end having snapped off one of the secondary (upper) chain guides like ours did, leaving the chain to occasionally slap against the inside of the timing cover. Some photos here:

https://www.x-trail-uk.co.uk/viewtopic. ... y&start=50
 
#22 ·
with the questions being asked i would advise getting the workshop manual and yes there are marks but allso checks to be made before deciding to keep the chain ie the distance of travel on the new tensioner will it still exced a safe limit i seem to remember around 15 mill is ok but carnt be sure.
 
#25 ·
Diabolical ? Yeah thats a Renault speciality. Engines with Gearbox Built into the subframe on a jig then lifted complete into the body on the production line in seconds. Best option then is to hunt down scrap sqr steel tubing and big poly castors to make a custom fit jig to mate with the lift bolt holes in the bottom of the block and subframe. 2 poster ramp is best for that. 4 poster roll on ramp is more entertaining. Working off car/ramp is best.